Albert caused me to think more specifically about one of the questions I offered several posts ago …
Albert said …
Ellis, your questions are refreshing. I am not sure I have answers for these tough questions. Through our work at Buckner we are providing a platform for the next generation to get on mission to serve children and families who desparately need help. I am hoping to open up internships to provide the next generation to discover ways God might use them in non-traditional capacities. Hopefully out of this call, some youth might gain a sharper call to pastoral ministry to equip the membership for ministry. When I was at BUA, a theological university, we were surprised to learn that only about 40% of the students were there to study to be a pastor. The majority wanted to serve the church but not as a pastor or staff minister. God is calling our youth but as you asked: Do we have a place to plug them in? We are making a place at Buckner through internships and staff positions. Let’s keep pursuing these questions. Very few leaders are thinking this way.
The part that caught my attention was that more than 50% of his BUA students were NOT studying to become pastors (by this I assume he means traditional senior pastors of a church). The reason that strikes me is that I was recently asked to go speak at chapel at Truett and spend some time with students in a class setting, as well as Q&A time. Truett is bringing in different pastor practitioners who can give the student body a positive message about pastoring because so few of them are wanting to go into the pastorate. So, Al, I think it’s probably a pretty big trend. We need to pay close attention to what God is doing and completely rethink the way we do church.
We are looking at the possibility of doing satellite worship services at my church. I’m not particulary fond of the idea, but it’s growing on me. One of the things we will need are “pastors” who are not interested in a traditional model of pastoring, but in being “lead shepherds” at these satellite congregations, ministering to the needs of the people, under the umbrella of Calvary. These shepherds would not be traditional “preaching pastors,” but rather “pastoral ministry” … “spritual development” … and “equipping” type of ministers. It seems a great place to get a lot of experience on the “nuts and bolts” of ministering to people, without the overwhelming demands of being a lead pastor … and without being a “preacher” in the traditional sense.
We have also attempted a co-op ministry where we rent a building and have businesses use the facility during the day (coffee shop, t-shirt shop, art gallery, etc.), and at night and at different times we have worship and bible study there … it begins to get the church out into the community. No sign anywhere that says “Calvary” or anything that would smack of a church. It’s just a place where people come to drink coffee or buy a shirt … but the Christ Spirit is there … and there are plenty of flyers around that advertise a Thursday night Concert or a Tuesday night AA meeting or a Saturday Karaoke night.
Anyway … I would see these kinds of ministries as ways to connect an entire generation that seems to be saying … “Typical Senior Pastor? … No thanks.”
ellis
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Ellis,
Yours is a very valid concern. It is exciting to hear that Calvary is willing to do different things to get closer to the people. I recently read Neil Cole’s the Organic Church and have done some research into the emerging church. Someone has suggested that the emerging church is asking all the right questions but wondered if they are getting to the right answers or even if they are going the right way about getting the answers. (Of course they would claim there is no one right way). Anyway, I think that is part of this conversation about leadership, the next generation, and traditional church. I e-mail you a copy of the paper. Let me know what you think.
Julio:
Thanks for your thoughts. I, too, have read Coles’ work … it’s very interesting. I’ve read Maclaren and others of the emergent church movement. There’s some great stuff in there … not all of it … but the stuff that’s good is really good. I think they are struggling at certain points, but the great thing about it is that they admit that and don’t pretend to have all the answers. There are some dangers. No structure is impossible to work with. There are some things that have been done a certain way for centuries for a reason … it just works. Other things are NOT timeless and need to be changed. We have studies several of the emergent church ideas and experiments and have found them to be less than effective. But I like some of the things they are saying.
One book that has helped to shape us at Calvary is The Shaping of Things to Come by Frost and Hirsch. Again, not everything in the book is great … but what is great, is really great! I especially resonate with the incarnational model. I’m not sure how that looks in the context of doing church … but I want to find out. It’s biblical.
I’ll get to the paper you emailed as soon as I can …
blessings,
ellis
Ellis, there is no question that the role of the Senior Pastor needs to be redefined as we move forward and expect to engage the next generation. We have to admit that those of us who have stuck with our calling have had to carve out new paths and trails to be faithful to our call but also connect to our context. You have probably heard or read the studies that say how hazadarous vocational ministry, namely the pastorate, can be to your health, family, your life, etc. It does not have to be this way if we are willing to redefine what it means to be a pastor in 2008. Sounds like you are doing that. Making room for ministry leaders or pastors who specialize in areas besides the senior or preaching role is a great way to explore new paths and trails for them. I love the idea about engaging business and creative use of space. Who knows, maybe those who run those businesses might see this as their ministry as well.
I am encouraged that your are thinking as an entreprenuer. I’ll try not to get on my soap-box about the false dichotomy between “ministry” and “business.” Jesus was a carpenter in the business of making furniture and houses. I would imagine that he sold some of them. He called brothers who ran a fishing business to follow him. He also called an IRS agent to be on his team and he appointed a tentmaker as the Apostle to the Gentiles. Jesus spoke a lot about money. We need not be afraid of business or feel like it is not ministry. It can be.
Your creativity is very encouraging.
One more note about BUA. I am very pleased that BUA now offers a BA Degree in Cross-cultural Business Leadership. This is a degree program offerred after I left in 2006. We explored some of those ideas in 2005 and 2006 so I am very pumped that they are pursuing that degree program.
They are also offering a BA Degree in Spanish. I can see how lots of youth who want to do ministry and have an interest would be engaged by the BACCBL degree. You still get biblical and theological studies but also have a good does of business leadership.
This is an innovative move for BUA and I hope it see great gains in this program. Perhaps this will be a way for our youth to study theology and bible while looking at business as a legitimate way to prepare and do ministry.
Al:
Man … I’m so glad that BUA is offering a degree in Leadership. That is woefully lacking in most seminaries. Ove the years I have come to categorize my work as pastor in three sweeping categories: Proclamation (which includes teaching and personal witnessing, as well as preaching), Pastoral Care, and Leadership. My seminary experience prepared me well for the first two, but not the third. Some of the top business leaders in the Valley are members of my church … brilliant captains of industry … but, in the life of the church, they look to me to lead … and I feel woefully inadequate most of the time.
I just don’t have a strong background in leadership. And the seminary did very little to help me.
“… the false dichotomy between “ministry” and “business.”
Yes! And directly related to it is the false dichotomy between the “ordained” and “layperson.” In our church we say that every member is a minister and a missionary. We also strive to help people understand that God wants to use them right where he has them … we are tying to build a missional church where every member sees themselves as being on mission for God. If a deacon who is a Vet goes to Africa to teach the Masai tribe how to better take care of their cows … it’s no different than what he does every day in McAllen. The only thing that has changed is location … it’s just geography.
Jesus said … “As you go make disciples of all nations …”
blessings,
ellis
Bro. Ellis, I hope you don’t mind this exchange turning into a longer conversation. Each time write another big issue pops up. Thanks again for stimulating this dialog. I learned management from my BBA and by working at Sprint for 7 years. When I went to SWBTS I learned very little about mgt or leadership. In the DMin I petitioned the faculty for a seminar in leadership, an independent study. They agreed. Got into the pastorate and found that there was a lot of leadership and mgt stuff to do. When I arrived at BUA I realized that while I had mgt I did not have educational mgt, which is different. So I enrolled in the PhD in Leadership. Boy, am I drinking deep from the fountain of that discipline. I taught a leadership course at BUA that was required. I found that most of our students really enjoyed this discipline and realized they needed it for life.
Developing leaders is central to my vision at Buckner. Developing leaders from the staff and the children. Leaders who can demonstrate leadership competencies with a theological perspective is scarce. This issue plagues our churches and our denomination.
I have been meeting with some Hispanic leaders who are thinking seriously about starting a leadership institute for Latinos. I think we are on to something. Thanks for raising the issue.